4/12/2008

I am being quiet

I am being quiet about the whoel Seal press bullshit/appropriation of BFP's voice/the silencing of BFP's Voice by Hillary Voters thing becuase I don't want to start off about Ren and Belle's general bullshit because:

A) I don't want to center something about white people that shouldn't be centered around white people because that's what the white people want me to do really.

B) I don't want to get into the habit of mocking people suffering from mental illness, and NPD is a mental illness as far as I'm concerned, even if the whole "being in a co-depedent relationship with The Seelhoff and the rest of the Nuns Who Say 'Ni!'*" thing isn't a mental illness (get well soon you two).

and C) I think I've proven with both Marcotte and chasingmoksha that I pretty effectively suck at the whole "teaching potential white allies that it doesn't cost you anything to not be a racist douchbag", especially in the face of Ren's intermittent illiteracy thing (and get well from that too hon, you have nothing but my pity atm).

So I'm just leaving it for hte moment, and hoping that BFP comes back when she's hungry rather than doing that whole Obi-Wan style "turn into a large blue ghost, appear randomly to despence advice".

Which you know can only lead to BA breaking her finger when BFP appears unexpectedly while BA's flicking the bean and some poor white ally getting stuck playing Whoopi Goldberg to BFP's Patrick Swaze and translating her for the betterment of other POC.

So I'm sending helaing vibes (well, I'm not actually sending vibrators, because they don't grow on trees you know, but I am using healing vibes at the moment, srsly, this one is allegedly a "back massager" for instance. And if being a white ally doesn't mean "showing largely hollow and meaingingless support for POC while avoiding inconveniencing myself" then I honestly and sincerely don't know what does**) and doing what will best help WOC in this chunky period asshole white ladies are throwing at them I.E. avoiding actually giving them more problems.

Just think of me as a Rodent Cheerleader - a mouse with little pompoms in its forepaws, dressed in a miniskirt and doing the splits for no satisfactory reason.

* So called because while they're probably fine with shrubbery, the whole political lesbian thing points to them having severe problems with honest to god bush ifyouknowwhatImean...

** Because I have a room temperature IQ (celsius, not farenheit), duh.

13 comments:

Ilyka said...

think I've proven with both Marcotte and chasingmoksha that I pretty effectively suck at the whole "teaching potential white allies that it doesn't cost you anything to not be a racist douchbag",

Time was I'd have agreed with you on that, but I don't know anymore, R., I think you may be shortchanging yourself there. I've owed you the apology for ages now for saying once that you were "just jealous" of we-all-know-who. I'm sorry I said that. I can't speak for the parties mentioned above, but in hindsight, I can say for myself that my not hearing you was 90% my own defensiveness. And the other 10% was that you were teaching upper division while I needed remedial.

Ah hell, I just centered the people you didn't want centered here. I'll understand if you delete this. Just don't give up hollering at people. Sometimes it penetrates even if it's like ten months later.

Joan Kelly said...

What is NPD? I hope that is not an offensive question.

R. Mildred said...

Don't apologise Ilyka, the thing is that that defensive reflex is probably a perfectly normal human thing, part of being a highly social member of Pan narratis really - I react the same way most times so bleh really - the problem is that I can't tell if any instance of my, ahem, "direct approach" actually seeming to work is actually a case of that approach being helpful, or whether it was merely a case of A) me being right on thost specific issues and B) the "target" caring enough about what's right and what's not to change their ways just because doing so is the right thing to do.

Of course saying that I'm still having to deal with the rage attacks and crying jags being homeless last year left me with so it's most likely that I'll jsut explode in a few days, cause a huge interblogular conflagration with all pertinent parties.

And the Manchi (sort of "allegiances" sort of "loyalties" sort of "associate") of certain people will either shift or it won't and that's all there is to is.

C'est L'vie and all that.

Joan: NPD is short for "Narccissistic Personality Disorder", you may recognise it from Belle's excessive use of the term a few months back after she read the Wiki page for it and it imprinted on her as a gosling does to the first creature it sees after hatching. (note: she was using it like it was synonymous with "has head stuck up their ass", which it really isn't).

At the time I thought it was a bit odd really, but after learning about the whole secret email list and watching her flail like a moron when BL took issue with that (as though BL hadn't frequently talked about how she'd seen things like that tear activist groups apart, and as though, whatever your thoughts on BL herself, her not inconsiderable experience with activist groups suddenly doesn't count when it really does actuallY) I can only say now that such a thing is just interesting, and counts as evidence in support on my hypothesis that Belle was projecting like mad and needs a fucking intervention before she ends up a crazy old bigoted bag lady who eats cats.

...possibly that last bit is hyperbole. Possibly.

Ugh, all of which reminds me of the bullshit I have with octogalore because of all the other stuff as well...

fuck this I'm going to sleep. can't be dealing with this atm.

R. Mildred said...

..And I did that thing where I forgot to make the point I was originally aiming for didn't I?

he problem is that I can't tell if any instance of my, ahem, "direct approach" actually seeming to work is actually a case of that approach being helpful, or whether it was merely a case of A) me being right on thost specific issues and B) the "target" caring enough about what's right and what's not to change their ways just because doing so is the right thing to do.

...In which case, all my "direct approach" is doing is giving the racist douchebags ammo to fling at WOC, as my words have already been used by Amanda, Hugo and others to that end.

IF i know for a fact that what I'm gonna say is going to be used as a weapon to assault women who don't need more shit thrown at them, AND I can't say for certain that what I'm gonna say is in anyway going to help THEN it seems like my duty as an ally would be to keep my big ol' pasty mouth fucking shut.

The problem is that it's a catch 22 though: my silence is itself a form of supportive behavior for the racist douchebags in question, which itself is harmful and damaging to POC (YOU LISTENING AMBER?) but any actions I take will ALSO be supportive to the racist douchebags and in turn be harmful to POC.

So this odd little post laying out why I'm being silent, and apologising for that fault on my part is all I think I can do other than go completely crazy and develop a substance abuse problem.

This seems like the lesser of all available evils.

R. Mildred said...

...And the lesser of the evils just happens to involve the least amount of work or suffering on my part.

Because I AM one of those "friends" who's silence MLK talked about, and gosh darn don't I have my priorities all neatly sorted?

Renegade Evolution said...

"IF i know for a fact that what I'm gonna say is going to be used as a weapon to assault women who don't need more shit thrown at them"

Classic, Rm, Classic. If you worry about such shit, then don't do it yourself.

that chick who can't read and all.

Renegade Evolution said...

actually, RM spell it out in small words, so I can understand...I posted one thing on seal press and their conduct on BA's blog, and gee, sorry, and emotive thing on BfP...other than that, a few words of deserved admiration and support to WoC bloggers I admire....

How horrible of me.

Now sure, I realize it's been a few months since you've torn into me and more or less called me stupid....but I have to ask...

WTF?

Octogalore said...

"bullshit I have with octogalore because of all the other stuff as well"

Excuse me? I think about you maybe once a year when you say something characteristically solipsistic under the guise of being a witty advisor to those who have stopped listening a long time ago.

So I strongly doubt that we "have" anything, bullshit or otherwise.

However, if you do have something to say to me, be a woman and come say it to my face.

R. Mildred said...

If you worry about such shit, then don't do it yourself.

So what you're saying is; I shouldn't be a white guy who accuses you of being a mean ol' WOC who's after white women's lucrative publishing deals?

I... You... Why do you keep flinging these incomprehensible personal attacks at me? Arguement by making your opponent's brain 'splode isn't a valid form of arguement dammit.

Also: I'm still not playing that whole "Prove your freindship to me!" game with you ren, it shouldn't matter one way or the other, and as my complete failure to respond to any of Octagalor's many personal attacks on me should emphasis, I don't care if I like you or if you like me, the thing she's done is enable your idiocy, which isn't good but she did pay for Donna to go to WAM so I'll bide my tongue.

Unless she tries to compete with you for the bronze medal in the 500 meters Butthurt competition at the Oppression Olympics of course, in which I can enjoy tearing her a new one.

But even then I'll be the bigger dochebag if I forget that, as I've pointed out already, this IS NOT about you, or her or Marcotte exactly, and it abso-fucking-lutely IS NOT about me, and if you can't grasp that it's not about Marcotte or seal press attacking members of Us, but about them treating human beings like subhuman props in their own little self centered psycho dramas against the vast jungian shadow they call "patriarchy", then fuck you, and go back through BFP and BA's archives, and fucking reread their posts on this subject until you do grasp that point.

Because if you can't get beyond the sort of self centered crap that is the root cause of this and previous blowups, then you really have not read the women you've been defending, because they're talked about this, and the women they learned about that from talked about this during the 80's, and the women those women learned it from were talking about it back in the 60's... it's a recurring problem and the absolute minimum that is expected from YOU, as an Ally, is not to defend them at all costs from those Other white people, but is instead just to LISTEN to what these people are saying, and to learn from the truths they deign to share.

But if you're still under the HUUUUU-UGE misapprehension that it's Really just a case of red team vs blue team, with Our side being better than Their side because we have all the POC, and anyone who criticises The Us is by definition The Enemy, and that's all you think there is to it, then you, little miss middle mangement, can go fuck yourself, and the same goes for your sychophants too.

Sic Semper Tyrnannus.

Olive said...

Actually, you are not being quiet.

Also, I think I've had it up to my eyeballs with feminists who feel it is their place to tell other women how to respond to situations. Just because YOU feel your best response is to sit back and LISTEN, doesn't mean that other women must do as you see fit to make YOU feel better things. Talk about narcissism.

Ren can write whatever the hell she wants to write. If you interpret it as her defending WOC against those OTHER bad white people then that's your interpretation and isn't Ren's problem. It seems silly to me that you would choose to snipe at her like this because you aren't helping solve anything, just creating more drama.

Renegade Evolution said...

Rolls eyes. RM, not everyone has to do or view everything your way, and the real idoicy here is that you think everyone must. I do read, thanks, and you know, I like the WoC bloggers I like because I think they say some amazing and valid shit. Wooo...stone me to death. And I don't much care about being your friend either, really, because you're tendency to be cloyingly arrogant and abusive isn't worth it. Really, if you can bother to learn anything today, learn this: you don't know everything, you are not always right, and gee, your assumptions might just be dead wrong.

Joan Kelly said...

"Joan: NPD is short for "Narccissistic Personality Disorder",

Ah, thanks for explaining. I have a question if you ever come back to this thread. (I understand if it has become too inflamed for you to feel like talking about any of it anymore though.)

Do you think it's possible for people to ever have private email groups that are about them having an idea of safety around the privacy aspect? I genuinely am not asking about the recent Belle-related group you talk about in this thread, but seriously wondering about the topic itself.

Why it is something I want to understand is because I have been (in a former life) part of an exclusive email list/group/whatever you'd call it. And it felt like it was a place where we could talk to each other in ways/about stuff that we couldn't, or didn't feel comfortable doing, in the public message board where we had all originally "met."

I will say, I know I did feel a particular glee at the secret-club feeling of it. For me it's almost like a hold-over of being younger, that feeling of loving girls and wanting to be intimate with them, privvy to things that adults or boys were not invited to know.

Again, I am not talking about or asking about the specific group with Belle and whoever. I don't know anything about that group except that bad vibes eventually spread far enough for me to hear about them in whatever permutations such stories undergo when being spread...

My question is - is it that sort of woo-hoo-I'm-part-of-something-intimate-and-special feeling that is itself inherently problematic in the types of situations you are critiquing?

And - again, don't know from the Belle group and don't care - do you think that it's possible for members of any kind of activist community to want or need separate, intimate, private connections with each other that could *not* be harmful to the whole?

Or, is it inherently harmful that people even feel the need to say things in private? I am not asking about if it's ever okay for people to talk to each other outside of saying it all out in a public forum. That's not what I got out of what you wrote at all. I'm thinking about in terms of, where a group is talking privately and it is related at all to the broader commmunity in which they are members. In that case, are you saying that it's by nature damaging that people even *need* to have space outside public conversations in the community?

I'm trying to get a grasp of it because I've never thuoght about it before, really. How private groupings could have an effect on a larger whole, etc.

Thanks in advance if you decide to answer, and thanks also for caring about stuff.

Anonymous said...

It is my first message here, so I would like to say hallo to all of you! It is definitely comfort to be adjacent to your community!